Reading the McDonald v. City of Chicago transcript I ran across the classic liberal debate technique of using false logic. I was wondering as I read, if Justice Breyer was going to bring up the fact that Chicago has all the gun bans to protect the children…and everyone wants to protect children. After all, anyone who believes different (such as gun owners), must be horrible and should be stopped. [see Amicus Brief section below]
JUSTICE BREYER: You are saying they can have — no matter what, that the city just can’t have guns even if they are saving hundreds of lives, they cannot ban them?
MR. GURA: The city cannot ban guns that are within the common use as protected by the right to arms.
JUSTICE SCALIA: There is a lot of statistical disagreement on whether the Miranda rule saves lives or not, whether it results in the release of dangerous people who have confessed to their crime but the confession can’t be used. We don’t — we don’t resolve questions like that on the basis of statistics, do we?
MR. GURA: That’s correct, Justice Scalia, and as your opinion -
JUSTICE SCALIA: Well, why would this one be resolved on the basis of statistics? If there is a constitutional right, we find what the minimum constitutional right is and everything above that is up to the States. If you want to have, you know — I think we mentioned in Heller concealed carry laws. I mean, those are — those are matter that we didn’t decide in Heller. And you may have a great deal of divergence from State to State, and on that I suppose you would do statistics, wouldn’t you? Or the legislature would.
MR. GURA: Well, Your Honor, we do agree that statistics are not important to determine whether or not a right -
JUSTICE SCALIA: For the judges. For the judges.
MR. GURA: That’s right.
JUSTICE SCALIA: But they would be for the legislatures.
SCOTUS Transcript McDonald v. City of Chicago (application/pdf Object).
Amicus Brief (McCarthy / Quigley)
Simply put, local governments need the latitude to address the unique problems that threaten the public safety of their communities,” said Congressman Quigley. “The conditions in Chicago, where 500 school children have been involved in gun-related incidents in the past two years, fortunately don’t exist in rural or even other urban areas across the country. We are by no means saying that a gun ban is necessary everywhere, nor are we trying to encumber the lifestyles or rights of enthusiasts, collectors, or hunters. But the children of Chicago and their families have a right to live without fear of gun violence as well, and the city must be allowed to continue protecting that right with sensible regulations.
Remember when you go vote in November to thank these people by voting them out of office. The following Members of Congress have signed the amicus brief mentioned above:
- Representative Carolyn McCarthy (NY-04)
- Representative Mike Quigley (IL-05)
- Representative Gary L. Ackerman (NY-05)
- Representative Timothy H. Bishop (NY-01)
- Representative Robert A. Brady (PA-01)
- Representative Lois Capps (CA-23)
- Representative Michael E. Capuano (MA-08)
- Representative Yvette D. Clarke (NY-11)
- Representative Wm. Lacy Clay (MO-01)
- Representative Gerald E. Connolly (VA-11)
- Representative Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
- Representative Joseph Crowley (NY-07)
- Representative Danny K. Davis (IL-07)
- Representative Diana DeGette (CO-01)
- Representative Eliot L. Engel (NY-17)
- Representative Sam Farr (CA-17)
- Representative Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
- Representative Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
- Representative Mazie K. Hirano (HI-02)
- Representative Michael M. Honda (CA-15)
- Representative Steve Israel (NY-01)
- Representative Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. (IL-02)
- Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
- Representative Henry C. Johnson, Jr. (GA-04)
- Representative Patrick J. Kennedy (RI-01)
- Representative Carolyn C. Kilpatrick (MI-13)
- Representative James R. Langevin (RI-02)
- Representative John B. Larson (CT-01)
- Representative Nita M. Lowey (NY-18)
- Representative John Lewis (GA-05)
- Representative James P. McGovern (MA-03)
- Representative Carolyn B. Maloney (NY-14)
- Representative Doris O. Matsui (CA-05)
- Representative Gregory Meeks (NY-06)
- Representative George Miller (CA-07)
- Representative Gwen Moore (WI-04)
- Representative James P. Moran (VA-08)
- Representative Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
- Representative Grace F. Napolitano (CA-38)
- Representative Bill Pascrell, Jr. (NJ-08)
- Representative Donald M. Payne (NJ-10)
- Representative David E. Price (NC-04)
- Representative Charles B. Rangel (NY-15)
- Representative Steven R. Rothman (NJ-09)
- Representative Lucille Roybal-Allard (CA-34)
- Representative Bobby L. Rush (IL-01)
- Representative Linda T. Sánchez (CA-39)
- Representative Janice D. Schakowsky (IL-09)
- Representative José E. Serrano (NY-16)
- Representative Louise McIntosh Slaughter (NY-28)
- Representative Fortney Pete Stark (CA-13)
- Representative Edolphus Towns (NY-10)
- Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL-20)
- Representative Anthony D. Weiner (NY-09)
- Representative Lynn C. Woolsey (CA-06)
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I guess there is a use for the 9th Circuit court after all…
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We therefore conclude that the right to keep and bear arms is “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.” Colonial revolutionaries, the Founders, and a host of commentators and lawmakers living during the first one hundred years of the Republic all insisted on the fundamental nature of the right. It has long been regarded as the “true palladium of liberty.” Colonists relied on it to assert and to win their independence, and the victorious Union sought to prevent a recalcitrant South from abridging it less than a century later. The crucial role this deeply rooted right has played in our birth and history compels us to recognize that it is indeed fundamental, that it is necessary to the Anglo-American conception of ordered liberty that we have inherited.
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“I did not think I would live long enough to see the day…” Many are saying this about the election of Obama as the first quasi-black (Nigerian, Hawaiian, Indonesian, whatever) POTUS. However, I am saying it about recent actions by the NY Judicial system. I was amazed this week when I heard the NY Courts recognized the rights granted to individuals under the Heller decision, and gave back a firearms permit to one of NY States citizens. In Colaiacovo v. Dormer the State of New York had revoked a mans firearms permit and CHL/CCW permit because his distraught wife had committed suicide. While it was gravely unfortunate that the mans wife had taken her own life, the pain was exacerbated by the State of New York in revoking the mans right to defend his home and workplace by stripping him of his gun rights.
This last week the New York Supreme court handed down the decision (citing Heller) that the State of New York can NOT strip a man of his right to defend himself and his home using firearms. This is a big blow to New York State, and is a “Smack Down” which is long overdue. Hopefully the breakthroughs provided by Heller will continue to spread.
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- Heller Kitty Rifle
I decided to investigate this confusion and came to the found the following:
The EXPIRED (1994-Sept 2004 enforcement period) assault weapons ban (officially know as, Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994) had the following restrictions:
The Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 specifically prohibited manufacture and sale of:
- Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models)
- Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil
- Beretta Ar70 (SC-70)
- Colt AR-15
- Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC
- SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12
- Steyr AUG
- INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22
- revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12
In addition, the bill banned any semi-automatic rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and that also has at least two of the following characteristics:
- a folding or telescoping stock
- a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon
- a bayonet mount
- a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor
- a grenade launcher;
The bill banned any semi-automatic pistol that can accept a detachable magazine that also has at least two of the following characteristics:
- an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip
- a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer
- a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the
- nontrigger hand without being burned
- a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
- a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm
- Finally, the bill banned any semi-automatic shotgun has at least two of the following characteristics:
- a folding or telescoping stock
- a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon
- a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds
- an ability to accept a detachable magazine
It should be noted although the Federal ban expired in September 2004, Certain states have maintained restrictions on “assault” type weapons.
Info from NRA (Pre-Heller):
“Assault weapons” are prohibited in Connecticut, New Jersey and New York. Some local jurisdictions in Ohio also ban “assault weapons.” Hawaii prohibits “assault pistols.” California bans “assault weapons”, .50BMG caliber firearms, some .50 caliber ammunition and “unsafe handguns.” Illinois: Chicago, Evanston, Oak Park, Morton Grove, Winnetka, Wilmette, and Highland Park prohibit handguns; some cities prohibit other kinds of firearms. Maryland prohibits “assault pistols”; the sale or manufacture of any handgun manufactured after Jan. 1, 1985, that does not appear on the Handgun Roster; and the sale of any handgun manufactured after January 1, 2003 that is not equipped with an “integrated mechanical safety device.” Massachusetts: It is unlawful to sell, transfer or possess “any assault weapon or large capacity feeding device” [more than 10 rounds] that was not legally possessed on September 13, 1994 and the sale of handguns not on the Firearms Roster. The City of Boston has a separate “assault weapons” law. The District of Columbia prohibits new acquisition of handguns and any semi-automatic firearm capable of using a detachable ammunition magazine of more than 12 rounds capacity and any handgun not registered after February 5, 1977. Virginia prohibits “Street Sweeper” shotguns. (With respect to some of these laws and ordinances, individuals may retain prohibited firearms owned previously, with certain restrictions.) The sunset of the federal assault weapons ban does not affect the validity of state and local “assault weapons” bans.
The states and cities that maintained parts of the ban have caused this ban to live on. Thus the root of the pre-ban / post-ban confusion. Luckily this ban is only in certain geographic areas which have been anti-gun for some time. Perhaps with some more time and decisions out of the Supreme Court, we can get back to normal.
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Good to see another one of the Chicago suburbs give up on the futile gun bans. Hopefully if enough suburbs give up on gun bans then the leaders of the Communist Party of Illinois will give up their hold on Chicago.
Updated 7/29: Morton Grove repeals landmark gun ban
July 29, 2008
By Nick Katz nkatz@pioneerlocal.comMorton Grove trustees Monday threw out the village’s historic handgun ban.
But Trustee Georgianne Brunner, the only one to vote against the repeal, said she may be back with a proposal to require Morton Grove residents to register guns with the village.
The 5-1 vote repealing the 27-year-old ban on possession of handguns in the village came in a packed council chamber while news cameras clicked and a large number of reporters scribbled.
Unlike the usual village board meetings, Monday’s was covered by radio, television, daily newspaper and national wire service reporters as the village joined some other Chicago suburbs that have or plan to repeal similar bans.
Morton Grove gained national attention in 1981 when the handgun ban, the first in the nation, was approved during a series of contentious meetings that brought out both supporters and opponents of gun control.
The measure, challenged by local lawyer Victor Quilici, withstood a court challenge and was upheld by a U.S. Court of Appeals. The U.S. Supreme court declined to hear an appeal of that decision.
But in a June 26 ruling in a Washington D.C. case, District of Columbia v. Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld, in a 5-4 vote, the right to have handguns at home for protection. It also said that regulations such as requiring that guns be disassembled or have trigger locks are unconstitutional.
The NRA-ILA Site Updates also chimed in on this subject
After court ruling, towns rush to repeal gun bans
In 1981, this quiet northern Chicago suburb made history by becoming the first municipality in the nation to ban the possession of handguns. Twenty-seven years later, Morton Grove has repealed its law, bowing to a U.S. Supreme Court decision in June that affirmed homeowners` right to keep guns for self-defense.
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